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TwitterThe Faith Thing
29 Aug 2012 37 Comments
I often see posts on Facebook from people asking for prayers for someone to be cured of some horrible illness or terrible trauma and there are always dozens, hundreds of comments underneath saying that prayer is stronger than X disease, than Y trauma. That if all these people are praying, the person just HAS to get better.
I don’t get it.
What happens if the person doesn’t get better? Are all those people then angry at god? Do they feel that, well, they obviously didn’t pray hard enough or the person wasn’t deserving enough to live? I find that hard to believe – most people that I know who have a lot of faith are good, decent people who don’t tend to think that way about others.
But this is where my whole lack of faith gets me into trouble. Because I want to ask these questions. I’d like to know what people who have this unshakeable faith think when something terrible like this happens. How do you hold on to your faith in the face of something life-shattering like losing your partner or child or parent?
To me, if someone has inoperable, untreatable brain tumors or a car accident has ruined his brain, then it’s up to the doctors. They know how to treat a patient with such a condition and of course, you try everything, but I don’t think praying to take away tumors or illness or head trauma is going to do anything.
I mean, it’s probably comforting to the people doing the praying. I’ve heard lots of people talk about the comfort they feel in their faith. But I just cannot believe in a god who would arbitrarily allow Mary’s prayers to save John, but Sally’s prayers don’t save Sam. I just can’t believe that. I find it hard to even wrap my mind around the fact that people DO believe that, that they believe that prayer works, that it does anything other than comfort the bereft standing by the bedside.
I believe people think they’re doing the good and decent thing when they say they’ll pray and fast so that someone will get better.
Because if it doesn’t work, then what?
Seriously. Then what?
37 Comments (+add yours?)
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Aug 29, 2012 @ 01:43:11
I don’t want to post this reply on FB due to people I don’t wish to hurt… but I totally agree with you. When my “Godson” (in name only, I’m an Atheist) lay in a hospital bed last year, he had zero chance at survival. Nick had made a poor choice and was “huffing” while in the bath, this caused him to pass out, hit his head and drown. Nick remained on life-support for a few days in an attempt to stabilize his organs since his family had chosen to donate them. It was obviously a very difficult time for everyone. But I remember at one point everyone gathered, family from both sides, to pray. A chaplain or minister had come to lead the prayer. I choose to sit behind the circle given that I don’t pray, I didn’t want to take a space bedside that in that situation was best saved for someone who did pray. So I sat there while they prayed, while they begged their God to saved Nick, a child who was already gone. I cried while I heard these people bed for a miracle because I knew that Nick could not be saved, it simply was not possible given the circumstance. I remember being angry at their God (really angry at their religion) that I don’t even believe in because I felt awful for these people that they had to beg for the life of this child while knowing he could not be saved. All I could think was “Why? How can they possibly keep faith in their God while they sit here and beg for him to save this little boy and he is not being saved?” I still can’t understand it. How is it that their God can be “all loving” and “all giving” yet allow them so so much pain. How could their God take this child away before he had even had a chance to do all the things he wanted to do in life? I was perplexed that while faced with a situation that their God refused to fix, that they could still have so much faith? I guess that is part of what makes me an Atheist.
Sorry for writing a novel there… its not often that I have like-minded folks around who will understand how I felt listening to those prayers that would go unanswered. It was honestly, truly heartbreaking.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 01:49:39
I’m an atheist, too, Amanda, and I just can’t believe in God. I would have had a hard time in that situation, too, I would have been sad and angry at the same time.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 01:46:39
That’s just it. Faith is a tricky thing. Once sin was introduced into the world, craziness ensued. I’ve seen people keep their faith through the worst and I’ve seen people lose their faith. God loves us regardless.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 01:53:25
I’m struggling to come up with words here, so forgive me if this comes across as harsh or rude, because that’s not my intention.
I don’t believe in God. I haven’t since I was about 6 and was told I was going to go to hell because I was never baptized. And then I read the Bible a few times and could not believe that God was supposed to be all forgiving and kind but could inflict terrible things on people anyway. I’m always completely perplexed by people who think, who honestly believe, that God causes hurricanes or earthquakes or cancer or any of those things. It just isn’t true. He doesn’t cause them, he can’t fix them.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 01:48:33
I’m a Christian and I believe in God, and faith is hard to explain because it’s a belief and not illogical in the slightest.
Prayer won’t help get things done better or faster – it’s just a way to communicate our feeling with God. And I may be explaining this badly because I’m super tired and ought to be in bed.
I prayed that my mom would recover from her cancer, but she didn’t and she died. My dad got really angry with God, but found peace eventually. I never was angry – sure, I missed my mom but I felt in my heart that she was still with me on some plane of existence.
Totally not logical so I can understand how people who aren’t believers can’t understand it. Plus I do think people should trust in science and doctors – it drives me crazy when people think that pray alone can save someone.
I had an ex who’s mom thought that she didn’t need a doctor and could pray her cancer away. Guess what happened? She died much quicker than she would have gotten treated.
I also don’t think God is saving folks who pray more – I also can’t wrap my mind around that. I don’t think God plays favorites. But then my views on God and religion are a little wacky than your standard Christian.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 01:50:37
I can’t really speak for anyone else but when I pray for someone I tend to hope for the best thing for them whatever that may be. Sometimes the prayer is just that their suffering will end, even if that means dying. I would have liked to have kept my father around longer but I also hated that he was in pain. Praying for him to live as his body gave out started to feel selfish so instead I prayed that he could have peace.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 01:55:19
That, I understand. You aren’t trying to cure via prayer. To me, praying that the best outcome will happen sounds reasonable and sane. Praying to cure something sounds kind of crazy.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 01:51:23
Is illogical – that’s what I meant to put in my first sentence. Must go to sleep.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 02:09:04
Hey guess what? I have known you quite a long time and your thoughts make sense. I have battled with doubt and still do. You know that I consider myself a Christian and I do have faith, but I hope I’ve never done or said anything to make you, or ANY of my atheist friends, feel like I think any less of you for your choice of beliefs or lack thereof.
I am one of those people who appreciate ANY thoughts or ANY prayers, positive thoughts, healing light…whatever! Just to know that SOMEONE is out there thinking of me and I’m not out there is SOOOO valuable in the case of major problems.
VERY good blog article and well-worded.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 02:14:22
No, you never have, BethAnn, and this wasn’t directed towards anyone in particular, it’s just something that I’ve wondered for a very long time.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 02:16:06
Not sure how rhetorical your questioning may be, but I’m still going to take a stab at answering to the best of my ability…
Folks who believe and trust in the Christian Bible are taught to pray. They were given a model prayer as a guideline for prayer. The model prayer says for God’s name to be sanctified, for God’s will to take place in heaven & Earth, to provide for the day, that we’re seeking forgiveness because we’ve forgiven others, and to be delivered from temptation.
The model prayer says nothing about hoping for a miracle, or that miracles will be performed. The model prayer came with an explanation about humility, about not storing up riches, about not being publicly boastful about your praying, but to do it in secret. It goes on about keeping your eye or life simple so as not to be constantly chasing gold & riches. Goes on and explains not to be anxious about being provided for and to not judge others else be judged by the same measure of strictness. And concludes with the Golden Rule and warning against wolves in sheep clothing.
Now, that explains the actual reason God requested prayers.
Now, onto why one person’s prayers are “answered” and another is “not”…
That plays into the whole Adam & Eve story. The Devil made a bet with God that Adam/Eve…and later Job…only were loyal to him because their lives were great. When the Devil tempted Eve & she, upon her own freewill, choose to eat the fruit of the forbidden tree, God had to enact the punishment he’d set forth when he first commanded them not to eat from the tree – That they & their offspring would die.
Of course it wasn’t immediate in human terms and Adam, Eve, their offspring, were all close to that original perfection. Over the centuries perfection has been bred out, because no one since has been perfect. In the Hebrew Scriptures of the Bible God set out various dates & specifics in prophecy of how mankind can be redeemed from this death sentence. Part of that involved the ransom of his own Son & another part involved the Devil being banished to the Earth to do as much destruction as possible before he was forever destroyed & perfection restored.
(Reader’s Digest version here)
By Biblical prophecy & Jewish dating (same type of dating & prophecies that marked the birth of Jesus) that puts the Devil & his demons being banished to JUST the Earth since the early 1900s. The Devil’s whole game is to make as many people shun God as possible so that he’s not the only one that goes down at the end of his run. What’s a better way to do than than to rock the faith of believers by causing this person to be horribly sick beyond doctor knowledge..and that other person, for whatever reason the Devil decides, isn’t so sick as to not have a chance at being cured.
But again, human imperfection can play a huge role in someone living or dying. I can hold a revolver to my head, with just one round in the chamber. I can pray six times, each time asking God to save me from the bullet. However…if I pull that trigger six times, that means God spared me 5 times, but I was too stupid to see that sign, I had to push it…time #6 that I pull the trigger…God didn’t save me…what gives? Had nothing to do with God, but a lot to do with my own ignorance.
As a Father, God said if you do ABC then XYZ is going to happen. As a parent he followed through with his punishment, he did give a way to improve favor, but has not deviated from the timeline he set out. Similar to us telling our kids – if you’re quiet for 1 whole hour then you’ll get a bowl of ice cream…BUT if you scream, yell, whatever during that time, then no ice cream. It’d totally defeat the purpose of saying that if 20 minutes into the hour they’re screaming and at 30 minutes into it you give the ice cream.
God told Adam & Eve don’t eat this fruit or you & your children will die for this set period of time, then I’ll clean the Earth of the imperfections, raise the dead, and restore perfection. Right now we’re in the grounding phase of the punishment. The reward is given to those who are faithful, etc to the best of their imperfect abilities that he perfectly understands…just as we make allowances for our own children, based upon their individual abilities. If you fail to live up to your abilities, then you get to miss out on the reward of living forever, perfectly.
♥
That’s the Reader’s Digest version of what I sincerely believe of what I’ve been taught about the Bible.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 02:47:08
I understand the reasoning behind why prayer is required by God, but I don’t understand why people think it works. I’ve never seen evidence one way or the other that it does or doesn’t
Aug 29, 2012 @ 03:22:41
People believe it works because they want to believe it works or someone has told them it works.
Back to the roulette…
Had I stopped shooting myself after the first round, I could say it was a miracle, God prevented me from dying by putting an empty chamber first. I tell everyone all about how God saved me and it’s a miracle. On the reverse side – I shoot & the bullet is in the first chamber, I die from gunshot wound to the head. Apparently God didn’t answer my prayer, so I’m obviously a horrible person, since God didn’t save me…or maybe it was just God’s choice for me to perish by putting a loaded gun to my head. That in turns also gets sold off as I was perhaps wavering in my faith, so I should have spent more time/money/resources providing for the Church. Of course no Church leader is going to say that *I* was a sinner or otherwise unworthy of being saved because that would turn off some of his parishioners & cause them to leave, thus in 90% of Christian church organizations, decreasing his personal paycheck or influence.
Not to be intentionally offending towards any, but a lot of it is just a rhetoric scare tactic used to keep the money coming into the Church.
God himself never said he’d cure someone based upon their prayers to Him, in fact I know that in one of the letters of the Apostles it mentions that miracles & faith healing were done away with in the new Christian Church because Jesus provided salvation. Therefore someone’s healing or death comes down to the health, actions, & resources of the individual, not because of some specified intervention from God Himself.
Instead of the gun to the head scenario one could apply it even to natural disasters…folks are often warned up to WEEKS in advance that this potentially devastating storm is approaching…They decide to stay instead of evacuating. Did God decide they should die? Or did their failure to evacuate leave them open to facing the elements, thus putting the loaded gun in their hand?
People smoke cigarettes, live in polluted areas, etc…they develop lung cancer. They were told doing these things/being around them increase their chances of developing lung cancer. So, once again, they’re holding the loaded gun.
People think prayers for miracles work because their shot is the empty chamber. Other people think it doesn’t work because their shot was the loaded chamber.
Not all things are wholly preventable, genetics play a huge part. Imperfect genetics results in imperfect beings.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 02:25:40
You nicely articulated some of my own thoughts. I can appreciate the idea that it brings people comfort, but it seems unrealistic to think that praying or asking for supernatural intervention is going to accomplish anything more than that. I feel like a bad friend for not participating in that way, but I hope the process offers some peace and comfort for others.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 02:32:37
You put into words something that I think every single time I see/hear about people asking for prayers or posting verses of the bible or some other religious book as “proof” of things, or to explain things that happen.
But then – I omit “under god” when I say the pledge at school board meetings.
I guess I’ve just seen people who truly think prayer makes a difference get nothing in return and still keep doing it. And if their prayers aren’t answered, they say, “then this is god’s will.” Well, if you figured it was inevitable, why pray? It makes no difference, it will just be “god’s will,” so why waste the time?
I still need a good answer when someone says they’re praying for me…..I want to yell, NO, DON’T, please for the love of chips, don’t….
Aug 29, 2012 @ 02:44:09
Here’s how I see it – I think we don’t know everything about energy and how interconnected we are. I believe in good energy because I can feel it. So I don’t think you can do harm by concentrating on good and spreading that energy. I don’t have any evidence to back this up, but that’s my plan and I’m sticking to it.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 02:48:33
I don’t have any issues with thinking good thoughts, sending good vibes or any of that stuff. I just don’t believe in God. I want the best for people, always, but I don’t think God enters into that at all.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 02:44:25
I believe, but I also find I have a lot of questions – some of the same questions you mentioned. I think a lot of believers do, too. I don’t have a lot of answers, and some of the answers I have are hard to translate into words to share with others. I can only articulate these two things, though – first, the times I’ve gotten answers have been when I was going slow and listening closely to the things in my heart. There is a LOT of junk out there – even mainstream, widely accepted junk – about faith, and I get mired down the more I listen to it. I’ve come to the place where I realized I don’t believe God is who *they* say he is, and I have to get rid of my preconceived ideas.
My second thing is that I’ve come to understand my faith so much better as a mother. There are so many times when Gabe is upset with me or stubbornly continuing in whatever he’s doing and I have to step in. There’s so much he doesn’t understand about life and relationships and the world. When I think of God in that parent role, I realize that it’s entirely possible (quite likely, really) that there’s a LOT I don’t understand about life and relationships and the world. I’ve prayed for things in the past that had they come to fruition I know now they wouldn’t have been good for me. So I think a lot about that when I have questions that go unanswered. I also get angry, too. I’ve been angry at God and have stayed that way for a long time, and that’s ok with me, and I think God dealt with it just fine.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 02:51:56
J –
I will do my best to explain how I feel, but it will be no easier for you to understand why I have faith than for me to understand why you don’t. Luckily I have been raised to love, tolerate, and support all types of people, which I blame on my parents, and am very thankful that they practice the true meaning of christianity – loving all people as we are told to do, no matter who they are.
That being said, I definitely understand where you are coming from. I have struggled with my faith – although, ironicaly, never because of an unanswered prayer. See, I believe that what I believe is God, what other believes is fate or whatever, answers prayers in whatever way he/it sees fit for the good of the universe. Maybe diabetes has something to do with this. It makes me very angry when people believe they can just pray something away – I believe too much in science for that. No I cannot pray my diabetes away, and I would never ever stop taking insulin because I had “faith” or whatever.
I think I see prayer differently than most people do. When I pray, it’s like talking to a therapist – it helps me cope no matter the income. It’s like writing a diary or talking to a friend. It’s just a way to get my feelings out on a certain subject. Sure I may ask for wisdom every now and then, but there’s no expected outcome.
The way I handle situations like facebook is that I will tell my friends that they are in my thoughts. Because quite frankly that’s all my prayers are – just thoughts to a deity that may or may not exist. And if I ever ask for prayers I always try and ask for thoughts as well – seems to me the secular version of prayer, more of a hope or a good will feeling.
Maybe this is just a rambling and it doesn’t’ actually address the subject directly, and I will cavat that most Christians/people of prayer are very unlike myself (again, I had great parents). But I can totally understand where you’re coming from. And I have fought with myself and with God on the subject. And I don’t always have a strong faith. And it doesn’t always comfort me (if God loves everyone, then why am I special because he loves me? is my latest faith related fight with myself). It bugs me when Christians or Atheists alike think they have all the answers – and I like that you kind of admit that you don’t. (See, I knew I liked you for a reason).
Aug 29, 2012 @ 04:02:46
Oddly enough, I just shared a prayer request on my FB page, just before I clicked over here.
While I consider myself a Christian, like many of your previous posters, I tend to pray for God’s will to be done, and for peace and comfort for the family, no matter what the outcome. I’ve had plenty of my own struggles with faith and wrestled my own demons, and this is what works for me. I know plenty of people who have a faith that comforts them and sustains them, and I am truly happy that they have something in their life that is so helpful. I also am of the mindset that my beliefs are only my own, and what you may or not believe is your own. My answers may not be correct, but that’s on me and no one else. IMO, we all have to do what works for us, whether it’s atheism, Christianity, Buddhism…whatever. Seems to me that if we all could just allow everyone to do what works for them (whether we agree or not), we’d have a much more peaceful existence. <3
Aug 29, 2012 @ 05:20:05
I am Jewish, thought I don’t follow the religious practices in my home, and I rarely attend synagogue. For me prayer is about being still and talking with God, or the universe, or the energy that is in and around me. I have never gotten much out of the act of praying, but I take great comfort in being part of the Jewish culture and religion, and on the few occasions when I do attend synagogue I find the sound of the Hebrew chanting very comforting – almost as though I’ve heard it in another life.
When my father died, I received many, many cards from friends telling me I was in their prayers. I found it very comforting.
That being said, I don’t believe prayers can change anything except how we feel about what is happening – by asking for prayers I think people are asking to be connected to the community at large, which can be a great comfort during difficult times.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 14:58:55
I agree with many above…for me asking for prayers or passing it along if they need prayer is more about comfort and peace in whatever comes to pass…I don’t think my prayers will necessarily cure or change the situation…I struggle with my faith quite a bit in many things…I really like what Beth said above…
When people say they are praying for me in general…hope, strength etc I find this comforting…knowing they thought about me…but I have had some say they are praying directly for my diabetes or healing…this bothers me a great deal…I don’t believe I will be miraculously healed by prayer…not to say I don’t believe in miracles but praying to be healed just irks me…I do consider diabetes to be more of a blessing in many ways and through my faith that is how I came to view it that way…
whatever the person believes in or if they don’t at all … I do believe we all have an underlying sense of hope that needs to be fed if that makes sense…
Aug 29, 2012 @ 16:03:24
I am a Christian. I have been blessed enough to see prayer work in my own life and the life of others. Prayer is my first resort not my last. I am thankful that I have seen it work so many times, that I often chuckle at how cleverly God answers prayer.
You ask a super relevant question which many Christians and people of faith have asked for years and years not just those who are doubters or unbelievers…What about unanswered prayer? What about bad things happening to Good people? What about “then what”?
For me, each prayer is said and ended with “thy will be done” which is the model prayer (the Lord’s prayer) that Jesus left us with. God’s will is a mystery and not everyone can understand the meaning of his will at the time of the event because of the senseless nature of some events/diseases/abuses. But God’s will does show through, and it is always for the good of those who believe and have faith. Even in the most terrible events, God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus stand right there with us–and having gone through some real crap in my life–I know its a lot easier to go through it with them by my side in conversational prayer than to face the task alone. God isn’t the author of evil, but he is the reliever of suffering.
It’s a peace that passes all understanding. It fills the void and the hole. I don’t reject God for what he hasn’t delivered, I praise God for what he’s given me. And girl..sometimes that isn’t easy. But for me, it’s the only way to live.
Keep questioning and reading on this subject. You will find your answers.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 17:00:30
Julia – I see two threads here – your original OP that offering prayers is something of a nonsense, and that prayer does serve a function, even if it’s closer to meditation or therapeutic communication. I also see a third thread – that choosing to be involved, to care, to be present or send a card saying, Thinking of you, is a powerful connection. It’s somewhat sublime, this caring/sending of thoughts/vibes/prayers, if you measure the power of that Hallmark card to alleviate deep grief, if only for a while. What I find encouraging is people who turn their concern to action, whether it’s further commitment to contacting and supporting others or merely making an extra phone call to a hurtin’ turkey. I am very very hesitant to accept prayers (although I do), for the reasons you mention. Also because there is an idea that somehow you’re abandoned by this God when things go wrong and it’s up to You to accept the lemon (and make lemonade). The bad things/good people was explained in a famous book by the rabbi whose name escapes me, using the story of Job, who when he finally told God off, got the reply DUDE, I KNOW WHERE EVERY BIRD LANDS. “Oh. Okay. My horrific suffering is nothing next to you being all-knowing. Fine. Next time I end up in a pile of shit with my neighbours stoning me, I’ll just think, God has mysterious ways and my suffering is about the same as a double rainbow in his godly outlook. Fab.”
This is where I lose my temper. So God is more fabulous than me. He knows the end and the beginning, and all the jokes. There is a pointlessness to this version of deity that stops me confiding in his sublimeness and makes me pick up the phone, write a reply like this or send money to random charities. I have decided that when I connect I become sublime, too. If I disconnect by ignoring other people (on every level, not just tragedy time) then I am not sublime – I am a piggy, because not connecting is like cherry-picking from life, only taking from others and leaving nothing. You can have connection fails but at least you learn from those – toxic people are toxic. It’s a stupid analogy but I think of the story of Job as similar to the Star Trek movie where Kirk says, Why does god need a starship? Starship, your suffering or your prayers, it’s all the same to a God who is so sublime that when you finally get his attention the best he can say is BECAUSE. Fab. I’d rather connect, and since I made the connection decision I’ve felt a lot better about the world. YMMV.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 18:23:48
I was not thinking I would post here, but after reading the comments and thinking it through, I have to.
I believe God lives within each of us. I believe he loves us, cares for us, watches over us regardless of whether we believe in Him or not. He believes in us. I believe my prayers are ongoing, they are heard by Him because He lives within my being.
My prayers are always for His will to be done and our peace of mind and heart, for strength to go on and compassion where needed. For non-ending faith and clean hearts.
Believing is not an option for me, I have lived a blessed and challenged life and without God, I would no doubt be a different and less loving person. I could be bitter or mean or selfish and alone. God gives me a reason to be the best human I can be and forgives me when I fail, as I often do. My sins are expected and as soon as I recognize them and ask, I am forgiven and given a new day and a new chance.
I do not see death as a horrid event. I see it as the reward for my life well lived and maybe my destiny being fulfilled. Either way, it isn’t the end,but the beginning. The tears I shed when someone I love dies are selfish tears. I am never crying for the deceased, I am crying for myself and the fact that I can no longer be with or see this person. I try to concentrate on the time I DID have with them and I assure you it causes me to never leave things unsaid nor undone with people in my life. We have no promise of tomorrow we have only one moment at a time.
I am not a Bible believer, as such. I believe it exists, I’ve seen it and read a good deal of it. I see it as a book of history as written by hundreds of people and translated by hundreds of people and basically just stories being retold and most likely not very accurately. It does contain some lovely moral lessons and some very loving words. The words, however, are from men not from God.
What a marvelous post you have started here and I pray that one day you will open your mind to the thought that He might exist. As one of my friends used to say and I’m sure you have heard it many times, “I’d rather live as though there is a God, because if I am right, after life on earth is over He will be much more pleased than if I had lived as though there weren’t. And if there is no God, in the end it will make no difference.”
I have no doubts. I know God is real and I know God has held me in His hands many times in my life and set me straight when I was drifting. But I can’t prove it to you and I can’t even make you FEEL his presence, but I can assure you, He is there, waiting for you to SEE Him.
Great respect to you and your courage to put this out here. ♥
Aug 29, 2012 @ 22:20:02
“I could be bitter or mean or selfish and alone. God gives me a reason to be the best human….”
See, this I don’t understand. I do not believe in God. I do not think I’m worse off because I don’t. Every life has challenges and victories, every life is sad and beautiful and full and I don’t think I need God to be happy when things are going well nor do I need someone to pray to when things aren’t. It’s just life. It is what it is and it’s up to us, as thinking beings, to make the best of it. I think we’re fully equipped to do that.
Aug 29, 2012 @ 19:20:11
This? Agreed: “But I just cannot believe in a god who would arbitrarily allow Mary’s prayers to save John, but Sally’s prayers don’t save Sam.”
That said, I do believe there are benefits to abiding with someone, with holding space for them when they are scared or sad or drained. Not that the end result is that the problem goes away, but that the person is upheld by your energy and love when they feel in short supply of their own.
Aug 30, 2012 @ 08:48:44
At the risk of sounding like an asshole, I think it’s a very simple minded way of viewing our relationship with God. While I am a Christian in a very questioning and completely nonrigid way, I don’t think God intervenes in our lives to save us from ourselves or from harm.
Sometimes things happen that we can’t explain. But that doesn’t meant that God intervened. If God could intervene in human actions on earth, why in the world wouldn’t God prevent the Holocaust or genocide in Rwanda? Because those people weren’t worthy? Or they didn’t pray hard enough for help? Bullshit.
Aug 30, 2012 @ 13:47:55
As an Atheist, I’ve always found praying to be too passive. It’s offering to do something with the least amount of effort possible. If a friend is in need and we want to help, we should actually be doing something. Offers of prayer would annoy me less if it was followed by an action, like “I’ll pray for you and I’ll drop by later with a casserole.” To me, prayer alone just seems lazy.
Sep 03, 2012 @ 17:20:27
Fact is, we are all born atheist. Prayer is a behavior, not an instinct. Religion is taught and instilled. We are not born Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, etc. Because then how would you explain a child of Christian parents being put up for adoption to a Jewish family and that child following that religion? Because children follow the beliefs of their parents.
I am agnostic. I believe that I am not capable nor all knowing to know whether there is a God or not. I also believe that the Bible and God do not have a moral monopoly over human beings. I find that I am more morally sound then many of my religious acquaintances!
If you want to pray that is fine and it has been proven to promote mental health. But that doesn’t mean that it is anything more then speaking out your thoughts and is not much different than hoping or wishing for something. And that also doesn’t mean that those that don’t pray are any less/more of human or less/more mentally healthy.
Prayer is a form of self-awareness and provides comfort to those who need it. There is nothing wrong with that. Whats unreasonable is to believe that you are somehow more worthy of a God to answer your prayers by the amount you pray or how you pray.
Obviously, I don’t pray. I personally feel that it is an out to blame my misfortune on someone/thing else and selling myself short if I am praising anyone other than myself for accomplishing something.
I praise me, I value me, I fault me, I take responsibility for me. My life is because of me; nobody nor nothing else.
Sep 03, 2012 @ 17:34:59
I’m surprised I’ve never thought of religion that way, as something you’re conditioned to rather than born to believe.
I don’t believe in god, period. I just don’t. I don’t get worked up when someone says they’ll say a prayer for me when I’m having problems or if someone has dies, but I do get very, very offended when someone says they’ll pray for me simply because I don’t believe in god. I’m not pushing my non-faith on anyone; don’t pray that I’ll convert. It’s not going to happen.
Also, this? “I praise me, I value me, I fault me, I take responsibility for me. My life is because of me; nobody nor nothing else.” Spot on.
Sep 06, 2012 @ 19:13:56
I guess I “pray” because it’s automatic…but more and more often I think I’m just speaking to the Universe and willing the good to happen and cancel out the bad, if that makes any sense. I believe, genuinely believe that is, in Karma and the law of attraction. Maybe I believe in it more than I believe in God.
I’m not sure what I believe in any more. I get mad when others say they prayed and because they prayed their child/loved one was cured of some heinous ill or injury…yet when my son was hit by a car, all of our prayers weren’t enough and he died. I’ve always thought my prayers were not good enough since that moment, 22 years ago.
Yet some semblance of faith or belief persists. Maybe it’s just because it’s how I was raised, I don’t know.
Sep 06, 2012 @ 20:57:03
My best, Christian believer, explanation is this:
First, getting angry at God when bad things happen to good people is silly to me. Things happen to people, and it can be good or bad depending on what and who it is. One person’s parent dies, and it’s a travesty. To another, they are relieved to be finally released from an abusive parent. Depends on who it is.
I view my relationship with God as a reverse of my relationship with my dog. My dog is unable to understand that I have to go to work to earn money to pay rent. Those aren’t concepts his fuzzy brain can grasp. All he knows is Mom leaves me home alone with my stupid brother all day. WHY DOESN’T SHE LOVE ME ENOUGH TO STAY WITH ME ALL THE TIME? He can’t understand why I must abandon him for hours so that I can afford a warm bed and to put food in his bowl (and pay the freaking vet bills). Or that using the bathroom in the house is disgusting and a recipe for illness.
In a similar way, our brains can’t understand God – he’s a higher power. He does things I don’t understand, but I have faith that there’s a reason. Even if it’s just for the lulz (because, let’s be honest, don’t we all love a laugh at our pet’s expense…as long as it doesn’t REALLY hurt them?)
I pray for the same reason my dog whines and scratches at the door every morning. Just in case. He’s never mad that I don’t turn around and skip work, but he keeps scratching and being pitiful just in case he can convince me otherwise.
But you have to have faith to feel that way about it. Faith that we’re not as big as it gets. That there’s something out there that could rain down locusts and frogs if they wanted (but I am grateful they don’t!). I believe there is, because while certain religious concepts are taught, human history has always had some sort of spiritual belief. We’re always looking, whether it be in mother nature, at the gods that shine in the night sky, or in modern churches. I believe we are born looking for something bigger because it’s probably out there.
But, that belief doesn’t mean I can live my life all willy-nilly. There are still very real consequences to my actions…and not because some old man is punishing me every time I make a mistake, but because we are social creatures in a big, overpopulated world and what I do has an effect on other people….either good or bad….and they will react to it. If I’m sick and I don’t go to the doctor, then I will probably stay sick. You can view it as “Well, if God were real then you would get better just with prayer” or you can view it like I do which is “God lead us to evolve in such a way that we have other humans to do that”
Oh yeah, I’m a Christian who believes in evolution. Weird, I know. (Actually not that weird, but they don’t let us talk on the TV)
Sep 06, 2012 @ 21:05:28
I tend to be good at prayer when I do it. The thing to understand is there are reasons for praying that are not just healing of sick/hurt people. You pray to get closer to God and to bring other people closer to God. Sometimes that means healing and other times, it means not healing. In our lives, we tend to think of suffering as the worst thing next to death, but ultimately, if you “know” God, neither really matters. They’re aspects of life like any other aspects. After reading your latest post about self-harming, you might be able to understand it that way- sometimes, pain brings solace more than happiness does. It’s that solace, but in God, that is the point of prayer- not healing, not avoidance of grief, not happiness, not wealth, not comfort. It’s the difference between a soul joy and a temporary happiness.
I also do believe that God would rather you hate him and talk to him than be indifferent. At least if you hate him, you’re still acknowledging he’s there.
I hope I’ve made some sort of sense…
Sep 06, 2012 @ 21:39:52
Fellow non-believer here…I was raised Lutheran (and stuck with it until about 20) and when I was roughly in middle school I started thinking it was seriously crazy. I mean, if in the context of the church it is okay to tell people that “god” talks to you and tells you to do things. Outside of church people call that schizophrenia. Dont get me started on miracles. Creationism, oh boy. I’m with you on prayer. I strongly believe it is because people are raised to believe that it works. People want to believe it works. If it doesn’t work their entire religion is a hoax so they are willing to put faith in it, a lot of faith. In a religion where there are no hard and fast rules answers like “it must have been god’s will” or “god has better plans for him” are how they pass off things they prayed for but did not happen. Like they weren’t doing it right or something. I really can understand the appeal of it but my life makes so much more sense without it. Accidents happen, it is no ones fault. People get diseases and it is up to science to cure them, not payer. I wouldn’t think to hard on this one because sometimes it just doesn’t make sense from the outside looking in!
Sep 12, 2012 @ 02:33:48
I’m not an overly religious person, so when I tell someone I’ll pray for them, it’s out of my comfort zone. I don’t always pray for healing or for some sort of miracle. What I pray for is strength, that whatever the outcome is, the person or people involved can withstand what is happening.
I also believe that no matter how hard or how sincerely we pray for something, sometimes God’s answer is ‘no,’ just as it is with any parent.
Sep 13, 2012 @ 02:12:21
I was raised Catholic but I don’t feel anything about God these days. People I love are really into God and religion, though, so I hear a lot about prayers and have been prayed for when things have gone wrong in my life. I don’t think these people are doing anything productive when they pray for me (and sometimes I think they’re just sayin’ they’re prayin’ because that’s the thing you say).
There have been times when I’ve envied the comfort that must come with a truly devout belief in a higher being. Mostly I am mystified, because I don’t understand it. I wonder what it must feel like to be sure that there’s a god who is very concerned with what you have done today and that you should do better tomorrow, and who can mete out retribution when you’re bad and gifties when you’re good.